In chapter 16 of my book Get Back Up  I find myself unemployed again, but this time with two children. I couldn’t afford to screw around and had to find a job fast. During my last couple of weeks at Ashton-Tate I had already started sending out my résumé and I already had a couple of interviews set up. One company I didn’t plan to apply to was Microsoft.

In 1991, Microsoft was the evil empire. They were a behemoth of a company, crushing anybody that got in their way. I worked for a company that was going away and I used software products that were also going away. Few people in the industry, except maybe the people working for them, liked Microsoft. This was not a company I wished to work for.

It didn’t really matter though, as soon I had a few job offers from other tech companies, and I had a couple of more interviews to go. However, I started to hear from the testers who worked for me that they had applied to Microsoft and had been turned down. After a while, all my testers had applied there and they’d all been turned down. I found this a little disturbing. Microsoft thought that none of my people were worth hiring?

When I first found out I was losing my job at Ashton-Tate I didn’t think I had time to screw around and I had to find a job fast, but now that I had a couple of offers and a couple more interviews to go I thought I did have time to screw around, and Microsoft was who I was going to screw around with.

I had no doubt I was qualified for a job at Microsoft after my success at Ashton-Tate, but I had no desire to work there. What I had a desire to do now was apply for a job just so I could turn them down, like they’d done to all of my people. They were an arrogant company, but they hadn’t seen arrogance. I would show them arrogance.

I contacted the test manager at Microsoft and pointed out to her that she had turned down every one of my people except me. I said I’d like to apply for a job and give her a chance to bat .1000. In other words, give her a chance to turn down 100% of Ashton-Tate’s testers. She was confused at first but after some discussion she told me to send her my résumé.

A few days after I sent the test manager my résumé, I received a form letter in the mail from Microsoft. It was a rejection. I was surprised. I thought they would at least interview me. I even assumed they would make me an offer that I could turn down. They weren’t supposed to just turn me down flat, and certainly not without an interview. The arrogance of these people was astounding. But then I remembered my sales training, whereby a No is just a request for more information. I needed to call the test manager and find out what her objection was and overcome it.

When I got the woman on the phone, I asked her why I’d gotten the rejection letter. She stated that she didn’t think I was serious as I had said I wanted to give her a chance to bat .1000. I told her I was definitely serious about the job, and though they might still turn me down, it seemed to me that the only way they could really assess my skill set was through an interview. After some back-and-forth she agreed to bring me in for an interview. Great, I thought, I’ll now get that offer I can turn down. I’ll show them.

Well it didn’t work out that way. After a day of interviews with six different people, a day I frankly thought went very well, I received the same form rejection letter. This was really starting to piss me off. This wasn’t the plan. But getting upset wasn’t going to get me anywhere. I knew I had to call back and find out their latest objection. The plan was to overcome that objection and get the offer. Of course, while that was the plan, you’re not guaranteed to overcome all the objections you hear in life, but even when you don’t you can still learn something from the experience. This may be good feedback that will help you improve going forward. Never hear a No without hearing the reason for it and learning from it.

When I called, I was surprised to hear that her objection was that I didn’t have a college degree. I had to remind her that Bill Gates didn’t have a college degree and neither did Steve Jobs or a lot of other tech company founders of the day. I went on to point out that while I did take some college classes in the early seventies, the fact is that if I’d gotten a degree, it would have been in business management, and instead of having a degree in business management I had 17 years of business management experience. Once again after some discussion she asked me if I’d like to come in for another interview. I agreed but I was no longer looking forward to an offer I could refuse, I was now just looking for an offer. I wasn’t sure if I would take it or not but now I really wanted the option.

A few days later, I was back at Microsoft interviewing and a few days after that I got the same letter. What the hell do these people want? I couldn’t imagine but I knew I had to get back on the phone. Now I’m told that most people would have accepted that first No and moved on, and for the few who pushed, the second No would have been enough. I wasn’t built that way. I had to know why I’d been told no, and I had to have a chance to either learn or overcome. Walking away wouldn’t give me either of those.

To the phone I went again and once again I heard an objection I could overcome. This time it was that I didn’t have five years of Windows testing experience. This was almost as surprising to me as the lack of a college degree objection. You see, I did my research. I knew the group I was applying to, PowerPoint, was developed by a company Microsoft had recently bought. I also knew they worked on Apple products, not Microsoft products, and most importantly I knew that no one there had five years of Windows testing experience.

This was a habit I’d had for a long time. I would always do my research. When I applied for a job I would go to the library and learn all I could about the company. There were times I would go into an interview or a meeting and know more about the company than the person I was talking to. This usually impressed the person and helped me get the job or the sale. This is something I recommend to everyone and frankly with the internet these days there is no excuse not to do this.

Not only was I able to point out their lack of Windows testing experience, I was able to point out that the product I was working on at Ashton-Tate was a Windows product; one of the few being developed outside of Microsoft. So, while I didn’t have five years of Windows testing experience, I did have five years of testing experience, with two of them on Windows.

I know it might sound like I was arguing with her the whole time but that wasn’t really the case. I might have pushed a little harder than normal, but then again, I was planning on turning down the job anyway.  I always talked to her with respect, and I tried to point out the humor in some of the more ironic statements. However, at the end of this discussion she didn’t offer to bring me back for another interview. I frankly don’t think there was anyone left there that I hadn’t talked to, anyway. Instead, she said she would get back to me with a different idea. This was interesting. I hadn’t heard her give me a definitive No, but it wasn’t a Yes either.

I was beginning to think that this little diversion was over and it was time to accept one of the other offers I had on the table. I’d started out by wanting an offer from Microsoft that I could turn down, but now I thought I wanted an offer from them that I would take, if for no other reason than to get in there and show them how good I really was… to show them that it would have been a mistake not to hire me. The question now was would I get that chance?

I found out a few days later when I received a call. It was the test manager and she said she had an idea. In looking at my résumé she noticed that I built and ran a test lab. She went on to say that they had a test lab and needed someone to run it. It wasn’t the testing job I was looking for but it was an offer from Microsoft. The next thing that came out of my mouth even surprised me but what she said in reply was even more surprising. I said, “Lady I’ll take a job sweeping the floors if that’s what it will takes to show you people that I was worth hiring.” She replied, “Funny you should say that because keeping the lab clean would be one of your responsibilities.”

So, there you have it. Something that started out as a game turned into the job that would change my life. I was starting at the very bottom but frankly that never bothered me as I always thought it didn’t matter where you started, it mattered where you finished. I accepted the job offer from Microsoft as their lowly lab coordinator, but my aspirations were higher than that; much higher.

Lessons:

  1. A No or an objection is just a request for more information.  Once you hear the objection, find out why and work to overcome it.
  2. Persistence pays. If you really want something, keep pushing until you get it.
  3. Do your research. Learn what the company does and what problems they’re facing. Be ready to discuss how your skills and experience will help them reach their goals.
  4. It doesn’t matter where you start. Just get your foot in the door and then work towards the position you really want.

George A. Santino helps people who want to break down barriers, including self-imposed barriers, to success. Check out his Amazon bestselling book, Get Back Up: From the Streets to Microsoft Suites.